The UK hub for Luscombe Aircraft across Europe 

  • Transponder for 8E

  • Technical Chat Tips and Advice, including flying the Luscombe
Technical Chat Tips and Advice, including flying the Luscombe

Moderator: HTB

 #8962  by Florian
 Wed May 27, 2015 8:09 pm
Hi @all,

I have an US registered 8E based in Germany and would like to add a Mode S transponder. We have the large Hanover TMZ nearby so it is quite a good thing to have it.

Does somebody know if there is a transponder having an FAA STC for the 8E or did somebody do a field approval already?

I don't know if it is important, personally I don't think so, my plane was an 8A originally and later converted into an 8E.


Thanks for your help.

Florian
 #8970  by Nige
 Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:35 am
Thanks for your questions Florian.
I'm sure we can find you an answer or two here - we generally come up with one in time! :) I'm not sure about the source of these but if you get stuck locating an engine mount I'll try to put you in touch with Mike Watts, here in Hampsire, South England. Obviously Univair, Doug Combs based in the USA will be able to source on for you. Shame it has happened though :cry: See how you get on?

Nigel.
 #9149  by Florian
 Fri Apr 22, 2016 8:27 am
Let's warm that one up a bit.

Since 8.33kHz will become mandatory in Europe out plan is to switch COM and XPDR at the same time. Since we have a Dittel KRT2 in our LS1f glider already we tend to put the same unit into the Luscombe. And because it gives a clean look if all avionics are from the same manufacturer and the useability is quite similar we plan to insert the KTX2 as well.

Since I could not find any STC for Luscombe avionics I guess from a legal stand point it doesn't matter what I install because I would need a field approval anyways.

Does anyone of has experience with Dittel devices?


Florian
 #9179  by Florian
 Thu May 26, 2016 2:16 pm
No suggestion yet?

What have you guys installed in the US and UK? Maybe it helps for my field approval if someone can provide an STC even if it is EASA.

Thanks!
 #9180  by AndyClarke
 Sat May 28, 2016 6:36 am
Have you tried the Luscombe Facebook group? There are a lot of knowledgeable guys on there, mostly in the US. Luscombes are not EASA aircraft, so there will be no EASA STC equivalent I guess.
 #9184  by Nige
 Tue May 31, 2016 5:42 am
Not up to date with Transponders Florian. Although we are not flying under the EASA banner being Annex 2 we still have to comply with the rules of the air with regards to where we fly in controlled airspace.
I try to avoid it if possible unless it's a realistic strong cut. Heh Ho...

Nige.
 #9186  by Florian
 Tue May 31, 2016 5:30 pm
Wait a second Nige! :scratch: I don't get this. As far as I know I have to have equipment installed that EASA wants for users of European airspace. But I think I need to comply to FAA regulations when it comes to which device I install since my plane is US-reg.

So my understanding is that the British CAA requires me to carry a Mode S transponder for crossing the channel but FAA dictates which transponder I have to install to get this functionality. Right?

And I don't know of any transponder or 8.33kHz radio with a minor change or STC for the Luscombe in the US. So I assume I will end up in a field approval where my A&P said that it might help if I can provide some documents allowing certain avionics to be installed in Europe. I guess he wants to argument like "If they don't fall of the sky in Europe with this radio/transponder, it will work on an american plane, too".

Are my assumptions right or do I get of course here?

Btw, thanks for the link, Andy. Maybe a reason to get a facebook account.


Florian
 #9190  by Nige
 Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:55 am
All sounds terribly complicated to me Florian. Perhaps someone who has the time may clarify this?
I was referring to to the UK registered annex 2 a/c where we can fly around Europe to our hearts content avoiding controlled airspace - even crossing the Channel, although I have my transponder on for that in case it goes silent. But even that squawk is for London info who don't have radar but can refer a mayday call to a London radar unit ASAP. Your situation seems to be a little complicated, sharing EASA/FAA requirements? Personaly, I would just squawk what you feel appropriate or what you are asked of and fly on into UK or potter around Europe.. Flying into busy areas controlled by radar with lots of passenger planes departing in and out of will, no doubt, require the appropriate transponder and radios. Indeed we will be having to change our radios soon and I will be one of the last to do so. God, flying is getting far to bloody 'Euro Civil Servant' to try enjoying yourself in an old Luscombe pottering about these days!!
I am still flying with a mode Alpha transponder across the Channel. I flt plan 'A' to Alderney and Cherbourg although they never seem look at my flt plan and ask me if I have mode C and I say no and they say "OK, report altitude", to which I do and they say remain or climb etc. That's it. Bornemouth are the same (with radar).
Let me know how you get on Florian. We need someone to help clarify this for you?

Nige.
 #9192  by Florian
 Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:26 pm
Thanks Nige! My problem at the moment is to figure out which unit is right. EASA says "Install something" and FAA adds "Go ahead, but use approved units only". But no one likes to tell me which transponder or radio are certified for the Luscombe, yet. I start considering to reregister it as experimental beacuse FAA then says "Do whatever you want on your own risk". And since I want to use the same avionics we have in our german glider I'm pretty sure it won't explode in a Luscome. :lol:
 #9193  by AndyClarke
 Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:15 pm
Florian, it seems as if the European harmonisation is not so harmonised. This is from Eurocontrol (not EASA):

Promulgation of Obligatory Airborne Equipment Requirements

The requirements for the carriage and operation of SSR Mode S airborne equipment in the designated airspace of the Mode S implementing States have been harmonised to the greatest extent possible.

Information on Individual States’ Mode S airborne equipment requirements and airspace access implications can be obtained from the appropriate State's Aeronautical Information Publication (AIP) and Aeronautical Information Circulars (AICs).

Please note that in some States, Mode S Elementary Surveillance is also mandatory for aircraft conducting flights as VFR.


So the level to which mode S (or any transponder) carriage is required depends on the state, and the particular airspace within that state, in which you fly. The only EASA rule that will apply, I think, is that when transponder carriage is mandated then that transponder must be mode S. In the UK for VFR flight this will only be a few TMZs (transponder mandatory zone) and perhaps some class D, such as the London Gatwick CTR. This requirement comes in force in 2018. This is why we probably can't help, because most of us will avoid buying a new box as long as possible. Or like Nige, just avoid the airspace altogether.
I guess you must need one in Germany for VFR, then?
 #9197  by PeterB
 Sat Jun 04, 2016 12:46 am
Florian

On account of your aircraft being US registered, you need to fit a mode S transponder (and an approved GPS if you want ADS-B) that is approved by the FAA. If you do that, it will comply with all European regulations.

The easiest way to do this is by fitting a system that already has STC approval.

Very good if slightly out of date information here. http://www.seaerospace.com/news_info/AD ... als_I.html. I suggest you give them a call or e-mail.

Most of the manufacturers have a (long) list of pre-approved STCs. You could give Garmin or Trig a call.

The Garmin GTX335 looks like a very simple (if expensive) solution to your problem. An all in one transponder, encoder and GPS all pre-approved. I suspect it could be fitted as a minor modification with a field approval.

PB
 #9290  by 02B
 Wed Aug 17, 2016 6:36 am
http://ipadpilotnews.com/2015/04/new-st ... ansponder/

Hi Florian,

I included a link above to a "all in one" solution from Stratus that Will meet the US mandate for 2020.This unit consists of a mode S transponder and provides ADS-B out. Garmin makes one too but it a bit more expensive. We don't require a STC but they were using a AML (approved model list) although I think they have relaxed that requirement somewhat in vintage aircraft. I used the Navworx 600B since I already had a Mode C transponder installed but if I was starting from scratch, I would likely go with the Stratus. Do some research online regarding a AML for the Luscombe or contact Stratus via email and explain your unique situation and I'm sure they will give you some guidance.

Terry